There Will Be Blood

[RONSAUCE]

I thought it might be a good idea for this to have it's own thread. Like No Country.

[RONSAUCE]

I thought about it a little more. I think that P.T. Anderson is the cinematic equivalent of Radiohead. Interpret that as you like.

[Johnny Boy]

I don't think Radiohead could make the musical equivalent of Boogie Nights. That would be absurd.

[RONSAUCE]

I don't know exactly what you mean by that. I can't tell if you are a fan of Radiohead or of Boogie Nights. Or, maybe neither and you meant something totally different.

So I'll clarify what I meant. I would never bash anyone for listening to Radiohead. I loved Radiohead for a long period during Highschool. It was what stopped me worshiping MTV and it introduced me to other types of music. I don't love Radiohead as much as I used to. I haven't even listened to In Rainbows yet. In fact, I probably wouldn't even call myself a fan of theirs anymore. I am no expert on music by any means but I think we can all agree that there is better music out there than Radiohead. But Radiohead is still respectable. If someone listens to them or is a fan it shows that they are open to non-commercial music or just the are open to art and culture. Now, I was never a fan of P.T. Anderson. He didn't introduce me to cinema. Kubrick did that for me, to me he was the cinematic equivalent of Radiohead and he taught me about the possibilities of cinema. I was a Kubrick nut for years and I used to say 2001 was my favorite film. I read whatever I could about Kubrick and watched all of his favorite films. However after learning about directors like Herzog and Cassavetes it's hard to look at Kubrick in the same light. You can see what's missing in his films. However, I still respect Kubrick on some level like I do Radiohead. But yeah.. back to PT. I can totally see how much he means to some people. I've experienced it first hand. Especially when I was in the first year of film school. These guys came from small towns and PT was a beacon of culture for them. They discovered him amongst a pile of absolute shit in the Drama section at a Blockbuster's. I had a lot of long conversations where I broke down what I hated about his films in a very aggressive and condescending manner and I'm sure there could have been a better way to go about it where I wouldn't have a offended so many people. I guess the right term to use would be to call them "gateway artists." They are some of the best stuff that you'll find in the mainstream which makes them great for introducing people to new things. But you must pass through that gate to much greener pastures.

But yeah... this is by no means a water tight analogy. I just sort of thought about this morning. Johnny Greenwood doing the score for There Will Be Blood probably triggered it.

[umma-ohz]

Interesting point.
I don't know much about P.T Anderson (infact i've never seen any of his films - and i'm at film school, whats going on?).
However i'm a bit of a Radiohead fan, and I would probably agree that they opened me up to a lot of other stuff.
I think you put in words quite well what Radiohead are to a lot of people. I hadn't thought of it like that before but think you're right.

Nice one.

[Johnny Boy]

Ah yes, I understand now how you could make that comparison. For me, it was Faith No More and David Lynch in discovering greater things. There are a lot of those gateway artists that seemingly don't belong among your favourites when you take that next step. I have a host of Godard films among my Lynch and P.T. Anderson movies. In a way though I think they're all connected. Take P.T.A. for example, he was obviously influenced by Scorsese a great deal. You can see that just in the opening shot of Boogie Nights. Scorsese was influenced by a lot of European directors, but you can see a lot of Godard in particular in his movies. I'm not trying to make a big statement here, but it's funny how that all works.

[RONSAUCE]

I think the most important and obvious one to point out is Korine. I don't see him as a gateway though but a beacon (I still love him). This website alone should attest to his function of uniting and introducing so many incredible aspects of art to people. Also, I'm pretty sure he had an idea of what he was doing. I remember him saying how he wanted Gummo to play in every mall in America or something along those lines.

[umma-ohz]

He certainly introduced me to a few things, from black metal (well, ok, i already knew of it, just didnt really pay much attention) and beyond.

[RONSAUCE]

Also, to sort of contradict my stance on Radiohead. I'm still a fan of Greenwood's soundtrack for Bodysong. They used a few chunks of it in There Will Be Blood, most noticeably the music in the trailer; the track with all the of the drums and stuff. That one is particularly good but I feel it doesn't quite work in There Will Be Blood. I doesn't build long enough in the film version. The tracks called 'Convergence' and you can listen to the whole album here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W8XNP6ER

[Johnny Boy]

I think the most important and obvious one to point out is Korine. I don't see him as a gateway though but a beacon (I still love him). This website alone should attest to his function of uniting and introducing so many incredible aspects of art to people. Also, I'm pretty sure he had an idea of what he was doing. I remember him saying how he wanted Gummo to play in every mall in America or something along those lines.

Yes, but anybody who happens to see Gummo would have by chance already seen a number of Herzog or Fassbinder movies. For young film enthusiasts to know about Korine, at least where I'm from, but not to know all these other filmmakers who he was influenced by would be quite rare. I knew of Herzog and a host of others before finding Korine. That's not to say Korine didn't open a lot for me, however. I'm now downloading Bresson's The Devil Probably.

[umma-ohz]

I knew of Herzog, but hadn't seen any of his stuff.
But I saw Gummo before any Herzog.
Never seen any Fassbinder, but want to.

[Kalamazoo]

I think Anderson owes more to Altman than anybody. I'm not head over heels for Magnolia; Boogie Nights is good. I think Punch Drunk Love, however, is a masterpiece, one of the top 5 films in the past 10 years, in the realm of The New World. Now I haven't seen There Will Be Blood and I know what you were trying to get at, but I think it's ridiculous to label something as "not art." I would consider emo, rap and heavy metal art even though I think they're all garbage. Even Freddy Got Fingered is art, though it be the lowest possible form of it.

I just got through watching Mamet's House of Games, Homicide and Things Change. P.T. got a lot his actors from those movies. It's weird seeing all of them together and 10 years younger.

[umma-ohz]

The ol' 'high art', 'low art' debate.

Love it!

[RONSAUCE]

Now I haven't seen There Will Be Blood and I know what you were trying to get at, but I think it's ridiculous to label something as "not art." I would consider emo, rap and heavy metal art even though I think they're all garbage. Even Freddy Got Fingered is art, though it be the lowest possible form of it.

You're right. It was stupid of me to say that it was 'not art.' It came off being very negative and immediately made me sound like an elitist. I regret phrasing it that way.

Yet, I'm not sure I really understand what you mean by saying "I would consider emo, rap and heavy metal art even though I think they're all garbage." Why not just call them emo, rap or heavy meatal? or maybe just call it music? or entertainment? why use the term art?

[Kalamazoo]

I just meant it would be equally ridiculous to say rap wasn't art but good entertainment.